Ask Marty - Natural Golf Q&A

Natural Golf Q & A

Do you have a question or comment about Natural Golf ? Send it to Marty at Marty@switchtonaturalgolf.com

Question from Joe: I started using the natural golf swing a year ago and when I first started I could hit my irons better than I ever had in ten years. Now, however I am hitting the ball fat and when I do hit the ball clean there is no power in the swing and I usually end up grounding it. Can you recommend any part of the swing I might work on or a drill that would help.

Marty: If you're hitting fat you might need to move the ball back in your stance. I prefer to hit my irons with the ball just in front of the center of my body. Moe Norman positioned the ball further forward but then he also had a strong leg action into the ball. That's not easy to do without causing other problems.

You should also check the distance you are standing from the ball to make sure you can extend your arms into the shot. Graves golf sells a device (ABP Trainer) that you can use with a yardstick to position your "toe line" the optimal distance from the ball. A relatively easy way to check is to start with a 6 iron and position the ball 26 inches from the top of your toes. Add one inch for each longer club (27" for 5 iron) and one less inch for each shorter club (25" for 7 iron). This is a general guide and might not be exactly right if you're short or tall. This ball position might feel awkward…like you have to reach for the ball. But you want to hit the ball with your arms fully extended and this is a good way to set up to the ball.

Finally, check your backswing and tempo. You might hit the ball better with a shorter, more compact swing. I find I hit the ball best when I keep my hands at or below the height of my right shoulder on the backswing. I might hit a longer shot with a bigger backswing but I'll be less consistent. A smooth tempo helps consistency too. A slow backswing and smooth downswing will help you hit more consistently and get decent yardage (for example…7 iron to 150 yards).

Question from Micha: My problem is the hook. I agree with your idea of taking one side out of play. However, I would like to take the left side out. I would much rather play a controlled fade than a controlled hook. Ever play pool? I am a pretty good player. In pool, it is a big mistake to think you can regularly control draw (backspin) as easily as you can control soft follow (topspin).

Any suggestions for taking the left out and controlling fade? What do you do when you really want to fade a ball? I realize this will cost a little distance. My playing partners are always surprised how far my ugly duck-hooks end up going. Maybe I should just live with draw since the extreme measures I go to to stop the hook sometimes result in slices that are far worse, scoring-wise, than the occasional duck-hook.

Marty: You've made a number of good points. Many golfers would agree that a controlled fade is the ideal shot shape since the ball won't run too far. If you miss the fairway, the ball shouldn't roll OB. And a fade to the green will land softer and not roll off the back. Jack Nicklaus was known for his great power-fade drives and Phil Mickelson plays best when he's got his "baby cut" working.

I played a fade for many years and appreciated the benefits. However, I've found that just hitting fades can lead to a lot of short mishits. I also play in strong winds which can kill a fade. And since I'm a relatively short hitter for my handicap (4), playing only fades makes some courses just too long. So over the past few years, I've worked on developing a draw, especially with my woods. I try to do this with an inside-out swing path and NOT by manipulating my hands or club head. I'm happy with a straight ball, but I'd prefer a 10-15 yard draw. I'm playing better now than ever though I will occasionally fight the "hooks". That's just golf.

When I want to hit a fade I make just a few adjustments;

1. Stance: open my stance by pulling my left foot away from the ball, with my left toe about 6" behind my right toe.
2. Grip: slightly weaken my left hand grip, moving my thumb from about 1 o'clock to 12 o'clock on the grip (with 12 o'clock facing the ball).
3. Swing path: slightly adjust the path for outside to in, aiming to hit the ball at the 2 o'clock position (with 3 o'clock directly opposite the target line).
4. Swing EASY: don't get too quick or try to hit the ball too hard. You don't want to hit a screaming slice, just a smooth fade.

Follow-up from Micha: Working on the hook problem with the driver. I was amazed, after three weeks of tearing my hair out, to find that it seems to be about something as simple as ball position. I took a NG lesson a few years ago and the pro in the Chicago area kept pushing the ball further and further forward in my stance. I remembered this and tried it with my driver. I put the ball all the way up even with my front foot. It worked perfect. It gave me much more room to swing, ensured an upward blow, added distance even with 80% swings and just made the club feel much more free and natural in my hands. I realize you keep it further back, but I thought it might be something for others to try.

Marty: Glad to hear of your success. I've tried this ball position with my driver, but found that it led to too many fades and/or blocks to the right. I know that Moe played with the ball far forward so I'm not critical at all. I'm a fan of whatever works for anyone.

Follow-up from Micha: Lesson went really well. I was trying to keep the club face square to the target line during the entire backswing, which was essentially a closed clubface instead of turning better and getting the toe of the club up, big improvement.

What I have not been able to fix so easily though is the length of my backswing. So here is what I was thinking to limit it: I am thinking about the right (back) knee and foot and that I should keep that back foot firmly planted and not allow the knee to sway to the back or outside. That should form a limit I can't swing further than without breaking down that position. I haven't tried it yet, but in practice with no club it feels athletic and seems to create a nice torque between the upper and lower body. Also most of the time I duck-hook I feel like I did some weird swaying in the legs and that they were way too active. Does this make sense - keeping the right knee in and strong and not letting myself swing further than this position allows?

Marty: Yes, keeping the right leg in a "strong" position, angled back into the right hip and nearly locked at the knee is very helpful. One of my faults when I was just learning the NG swing was excessive lateral hip sway. If you allow your hips to move back and forward, it's difficult to hit consistently since your club will contact the ground at different points.

You should also find that with a "strong right leg" position it's easier to keep your weight on the INSIDE of your right foot on the backswing. This is very important. One of the drills my former instructor had me do was to put a car "tire wedge" under the outside of my right foot. This prevented me from swaying backward on the backswing.

As for your backswing, another drill is to check where the grip of your club is pointing at the top backswing. It should point to a spot roughly 5 feet behind and 1 foot below the ball at address. You should find your hands no higher than your right shoulder and may find you hit even better if you can keep your hands outside your right foot but also below your right shoulder.

Question from Larry: I have some arthritis/ deformity in several fingers and this has flared up recently. I went out to play this week and could not hold the club in my fingers due to sharp pain with a golf swing. As a desperation move during my warmup, I remembered the palm grip from my NG days. I had to modify it to work with my current finger problem but found that with this grip I had to shorten my backswing and I had to "face the ball at impact" as NG teaches or else I would hook badly. The grip I used is very similar to what you are showing on your site. I think my left hand was a little weaker than what you show, so I need to experiment some more with that. My right hand grip was nearly identical to what you teach.

Amazingly, I hit the ball very straight and lost no distance. I was wondering if you have heard from others with hand arthritis issues. I've read about the natural golf swing being better for those with lower back pain but I don't recall any comments about the hands. I was also wondering if you use a smaller version of the full swing for pitch shots.

Marty: Regarding my setup for pitches and chips: I do use a NG grip with a shortened swing. But the key difference is my stance. It's closer to the ball and open about 20 to 30 degrees. Graves models the same setup on his videos and I think it's easier than trying to hit with a regular NG stance and just a shorter swing.

One thing I'd like to mention to you that might be helpful with your fingers is a site called JumboMaxgrips.com. They sent me a couple grips to test and I have been impressed. Traditional golfers might say they look ridiculous because they are so large (3 1/2 inches around in the center and 4 1/8 inches around at the butt end). The whole point is to make it very easy to grip (like a baseball bat) and swing the club. I put one of these JumboMax grips on my driver three weeks ago with good results so far. They may not be ideal for irons and wedges, but I think they are a good idea for woods (or at least the driver).

Take a look at their website. You can order a trial set of two grips for about $25. They could be a great help for your hands and fingers. I plan to write up a review of them on this website in the next few weeks.

Question from Neil: Fantastic website! My question is about loss of distance with the Natural Golf method. I started using the NG swing about 8 years ago. First, I just used it with the driver to straighten out my slice. I used my conventional swing with every other club and played to an 8 handicap. About 5 years ago as I had less time to play and practice, I switched completely to NG and bought a set of Pipeline irons (5-SW) and beryllium copper fairway metals (3,5,7). Unfortunately, I've experienced a great loss of distance. With my conventional swing, I used to consistently hit a 5 iron 200-210 yards. With NG I have to use my 5 wood to get 200 yards. With NG I tend to hit the ball really high and fall short of greens. I hit extremely straight and am satisfied with that aspect, but am not scoring well because I can't seem to hit greens in regulation. Is something wrong with my swing or is an equipment change in order?

Marty: First, hitting a 5 iron 200-210 yards puts you near the top in distance for amateur golfers. I hit my 5 iron 175 yds. I hit my 7 wood about 190-200 yds. These distances are fairly average for a 4 handicap, maybe a bit on the short side. I think you probably had a longer backswing and generated more club head speed with a conventional swing. The shorter Natural Golf swing will make it difficult to match the club head speed you had before.

However, I think you can still play excellent golf by keeping the ball in the fairway and on, or very near, the green. You may want to check your backswing to make sure you are cocking your wrists and getting the club shaft to at least a 90 degree angle with your left arm. Ideally, the club head would be above your left shoulder at the top of your backswing (not in your left pants pocket like John Daly!). Your hands should be at the same height and just behind your right shoulder at the top of the backswing. This should still enable you to hit solid, strong shots…but maybe not quite as far as you hit before.

I have not heard from NG golfers that they are hitting their ball too high, though I agree that's a real problem, especially if you play in strong winds like I usually do. It's more common for NG golfers to hit the ball too low, often because they sweep the ball off the turf and don't take a divot. This makes it difficult to hit and stay on greens. You may want to check your ball position and tee height. Graves golf sells a training/practice device for checking your address and ball position. This might be helpful to make sure your impact position is ideal.

Question from Jeff: I'm 68 yrs old, and I have been working with your pointers that you give at your website. When I address the ball to maintain a rodlike position with the shaft and arm, then where does the end of the grip point (Hip or Armpit). When I try to align my armpit, then my wrists feel like they're bowed upward? Yes I'm using yardsticks for width of my feet, and distance from the ball.

Marty: The grip should point at your midsection…just above your belly button and between it and your left hip.

Question from Scott: Great website! I have one question for you. I played yesterday and really struggled hitting out of the rough. Any tips?

Marty: Yes, hitting out of the rough, especially if it is heavy, requires some adjustments. First, you'll want to play the ball further back in your stance (toward your trailing foot). Second, you'll want to make a steeper swing that makes a descending strike on the ball and takes a divot…at least a fist-size chunk of grass. If you try to "sweep" the ball out of heavy rough, your club will likely not stay on line as it travels through the grass and will not maintain its speed. You're likely to just advance the ball a short distance.

One more idea…your first thought once finding your ball is to assess the lie. If the ball is mostly below the grass, your best option may be to just hack it back into the fairway with a wedge. If the ball is mostly above the grass, you may be able to get it close to or on the green by using an extra club or two and punching the ball out.

Question from YouTube: This swing is technically very sound actually. I tried it at the range and I never hit so straight in my life. The only thing I can't understand though is why your finish is sort of cut off..?

Marty: Good question. On the backswing, the right arm folds at the elbow as the left arm is extended. The reverse happens on the follow-through. The left arm folds at the elbow as the right arm extends. There's no need or value in continuing to rotate your arms around your body since the ball is long gone.

Comment from Michael: I started to play golf after a 15 year break. I was on my high school golf team and was fairly decent at conventional golf. I have attempted to hit balls for a month now and have been having the worst time. I started to look on the internet and observed Natural Golf and the Moe Norman single plane swing. I wanted try this since I was not committed to conventional golf. After about two weeks, I was doing a lot better but could not complete a full swing without slicing the ball.

Then two days ago, I watched your video on gripping the golf clubs. I noticed that your right hand's index finger was extended like you were pulling a trigger. I attempted to reproduce this grip and WOW. I can swing as hard as I want and I hit all my clubs well. It has fixed my slice 100% . I went to the driving range yesterday and my son could not believe it. I was driving balls 250 yards (with an old Callaway driver), and I was hitting my 3 iron 200+ yards consistently straight as an arrow, when last week I could not hit anything less than the 7 iron with half swing. I just wanted to thank you for your grip because I have never seen or heard of extending your right hand index finger away from your other fingers. I believe it has made me keep the club square upon impact.

Marty: I'm glad to hear of your success. That's why I created the site; to help people play the game better and enjoy it more. Extending your index finger is sometimes called the "trigger position" because it helps you square the clubface on impact. I'm glad it's working out for you.

Comment from Kent: Nice website. I however have sought Graves Golf for my instruction now. Not to bash NG but it is enlightening now to see why Moe was changing grips and clubs now. He was being influenced and needed the money. I really believe the grip Todd is advocating is the way to go.(Moe's pre 94') When I started playing NG 14 years ago, hooking was a problem. Now with the overlapping grip I don't have the problem any more.The overlapping grip keeps the hands in unison. I think Todd is really teaching the Moe swing. NG is a hybrid and unfortunately pushes their equipment as a necessity. I bought NG clubs several years ago and now I have to choke up on the clubs because they are too long. The grip difference is huge (left hand in fingers and under heel pad and right strictly in fingers) and I really believe Todd is focused on the swing itself. Well just wanted share my thoughts.

Marty: I'm glad the overlapping grip is working out for you . I personally prefer using a 10-finger (baseball) palm grip with the grip placed in the palm of the right hand and under the left hand heel pad. I do hit occasionally hooks, but that's mostly because I like to play a draw and avoid missing on the right. I agree that new clubs are not necessary for NG. It's too bad NG promoted this so much because it detracted from what should have been the focus; the NG technique.

I do think some people tend to be too dogmatic regarding Natural Golf. There's no single set of theories that will work for everyone. For example, I prefer a larger grip that fits more easily in the palm of my right hand. But I also like Graves Training grip and often practice with his training club. My basic belief is that golf is more enjoyable when you achieve consistent results. I try to demonstrate the aspects of Natural Golf on my website that have worked well for me, an amateur trying to improve over time.

Question from Tom: I am really having a problem starting my downswing by lunging the right shoulder to start the downswing which destroys any positive outcome. Any suggestion that might help with this problem?

Marty: If your right shoulder is lunging at the ball, focus on keeping your upper body quiet and swinging more with just your arms. Moe said he first got the idea of Natural Golf by watching a carpenter hammer a nail. That's a good image to keep in mind. All you have to do is rotate your image and imagine the back of the ball is the nail and the club head is the hammer.

Try hitting short pitches with just 1/2 backswing. Your hands don't need to go much higher than your waist. Keep your right elbow close to your body and just pretend you're hammering a nail using your forearm to swing the club.

Question from Mike: Love your website. I looked at natural golf a couple of years ago, but couldn't really break it down into digestible bites. Your videos and website does exactly that - thanks. I have a couple of basic questions. First, at address, should you feel like you are flexing your left elbow up, or kind of a slightly forcing extension of the arm?

Marty: More of an extension of the left arm as far back as you can comfortably reach. You don't want your left hand to rise much, if any, above your right shoulder. Moe Norman kept his left arm fairly straight and extended across his chest. You also want to keep your right elbow tucked into the side of your torso so it allows your right forearm to hinge upward. Your right elbow should stay close to your torso and point to the ground. You must avoid a "flying right elbow", where it points to the horizon.

Mike: Second, in your videos, just before your backswing, you seem to rotate your left wrist backwards slightly (look at your watch face). I can't tell if the clubhead is also rotating or if you're just twisting slightly around the grip?

Marty: I'm just trying to naturally allow my wrists to hinge in the same manner you would for using a hammer..not trying to swing with the entire arm but just allowing the wrists and forearms to hinge and deliver the club head back to the ball as if you were hammering a nail.

Question from Bernie: Marty, what are your thoughts on the reverse taper grips, like the "Feel" products, with a thicker top end and skinny bottom? I put one on a driver last year, and it seems to accommodate the NG grip as taught by the Graves brothers rather well. Still thick in my right (trail) hand, but thinner in the left (lead) to allow more grip in the fingers, as opposed to full palm in both hands.

Marty: The Lamkin Jumbo grips I use have a taper. They are larger at the top, about 3.5", and taper down to 3.0 inches at the fingers. I always heard this referred to as a "regular taper". That's the type of grip I prefer since I find it easier to release the clubhead and hit a draw. Lamkin, and others, also make a reverse taper which is larger at the bottom of the grip and smaller at the top. I guess these might be preferred by golfers who hit too many hooks and want to avoid releasing the club too early.

By definition, Natural Golf promotes a straight ball flight instead of a draw or fade. However, I find it better to play a draw and try to take away one side of trouble on the course. The tapered grips help me do this.

Question from Matt: I think your website is great. My question is what kind of video camera are you using? Does it have a slow motion feature, or do you just pause it at different positions in your swing? I have been studying your swing and I am hitting the ball so much more consistently than with the traditional swing. I would like to check my swing out on video and just wanted to know if you used any special type of camera in particular.

Marty: I have an older low-end Sony video camera. It does not have a slow motion feature, which would be helpful in checking my swing positions. I usually bring my video camera home and watch my swing on a large TV screen. I have found this to be very useful. My next camera will have a slow motion feature.

Question from Alex : Love your site and the NG idea, I am a high handicapper and just starting back in the game after giving it up for a few years, I have been trying to learn the conventional one plane swing since starting back and like the concept of a natural swing, keep it simple - less complications.the questions I have is: Do I start the downswing by thrusting the left knee towards the target? Also as you are in a square position at impact and not open: Does it mean that you get your weight onto your left side by the left knee then throw your hands and arms down towards the target trying to keep them ahead of the clubface? I don't have a NG instructor in my area but would love to learn the NG swing, any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Marty: The best advice I can give you on the downswing is to not "thrust" anything. You want to gradually build club head speed. You also should maintain a lag between your hands and the club head until you reach impact. Moe was quoted as saying you should "lead with left leg and lag with the right" but it's easy to over cook this idea by thrusting your lead leg. I think it's better to just let the left leg move naturally, the way a baseball player strides into the ball but maintains his spine angle and head behind the ball at impact.

As for your hands, I don't like the concept of "throwing them" at the ball. I prefer to think of just sweeping the ball off the ground (although you should take a divot for your irons).

Question from YouTube(Icfielder11) : Marty Thanks for all the vids. I used to play a lot years ago and was about a 25 handicap so I was never all that great. I recently started playing again and was struggling terribly until I came across your videos. I am now actually striking the ball first on my swing; I'm hitting much straighter; and most important I'm much more consistent. This is only after 2 weeks of using your videos as my only form of instruction. I have a question about the swing maybe you can answer for me. At the point of impact when I am releasing into the ball, should I continue to roll my wrists through contact or hold the full unhinged position for better results? I seem to be fading my irons and still slicing my driver a little. Is this from not continuing to roll through impact or is my clubface maybe open a little too much at address?

Marty: You do need to release your wrists on impact to achieve clubhead speed. The timing of the release is critical - too early or late will result in low clubhead speed and little distance. As an example, try hammering a nail and you'll see if you break your wrist too early or late, you'll lose most of the force. Finally, the toe of the club should pass ahead of the heel for a full release. You don't have to hit a draw, but you need to have your hands and clubhead rotate to generate adequate speed.

Question from Lee : Thanks for your time and effort to help people like me who are somewhat athletic but don't have the time to practice enough in order to have the timing of a good two plane golfer. I just started with natural golf and was amazed as to the immediate accuracy without any detriment to distance. One thing I noticed was that on occasion I would lose balance after the swing and hook the ball. I'm assuming this is the centrifugal force that may be increased by reaching out for the ball and pulling my torso forward. Any thoughts and fixes?

Marty: Glad you found my site helpful. Hitting a hook is probably the most common error with the Natural Golf swing due to the "strong" grip position. That's my most common error too as I prefer to play a draw and will hook the ball if my backswing gets a little long or if my wrists get too active. However, you should not be losing your balance during or after the swing.

You probably need to make just a few minor adjustments. One is to limit your backswing to keep your hands no higher than your right shoulder. Another is to limit your hip and (left) shoulder turn. Unlike conventional golf, you don't need to get anything near a full (90 degrees) shoulder turn. Moe Norman just turned his left shoulder and his hips slightly, only about 30 degrees or so. Moe also kept his right elbow close to his torso on the backswing so he could focus on a "hammer like" swing from the shoulder to the ball. There's not much follow through needed after that.

When you combine the items above with a wide stance and keeping your head behind the ball through impact, you'll find it very easy to stay in balance. Avoiding the hook takes practice and adherence to the Natural Golf swing keys.

Question from Joseph : I played NG 10 years ago. I had some luck with it but moved on after I couldn't get much distance with my driver. Recently, I found my hips as a great power source. I got my driver speed over a controlled 105 mph and striking it well using my One Plane swing method. Then, the unthinkable happened. My nice draw started to turn into a devastating hook. I could not seem to control it and had to resign from the course.

I believe the cause of the hooks is because the One Plane swing is a baseball type, handsy swing. The backswing/downswing pattern is an exaggerated in/out path. As my playing time increased using the swing, so was the efficiency, in turn, causing a greater in/out path with my hands turning over way too much hooding the clubface. Now, it so ingrained into my swing pattern, I cannot seem to shake it regardless of what type of swing I use.

As I made peace about hanging up my clubs for a long time, I found your site. I decided to give NG a GO once again. I have some older clubs with fat grips and followed your advice on this website. The swing seems solid enough and the NG grip is not allowing me to hood the club. One question... my hips generate much of my clubhead speed. Is this out of the question for NG?

Marty: Hooking is one of the most common problems for the Natural Golfer. If you can make a few adjustments to turn this into a controlled draw, you can play very good golf. Here are a few ideas:

1. Limit your backswing. You don't need to swing like a home run hitter. Take a look at some videos of Moe Norman and you'll see his left shoulder doesn't get fully below his chin and his club shaft doesn't reach parallel with the ground. A shorter, more compact swing will reduce the tendency to pull the ball. (I'm working on this now. I've realized from viewing my videos that my swing is a little too long and that my club shaft should NOT point right of the target line at the top of the swing).

2. Don't try to snap your wrists on impact. That works great in baseball and it's why Henry Aaron hit so many home runs, but it will create hooks in golf. Your wrists should "naturally" rotate after impact with the toe of the club head passing the heel. You should not try to force this on impact with the ball.

3. Check your grip, it should not be too strong. The "V" formed by the left hand thumb and index finger should point just to the right of your chin. If you rotate it clockwise (to the right) it will lead to closing the club face on impact. Your right hand "V" should point up along your right forearm toward your right ear. If you rotate this hand clockwise, it will be too strong and cause hooks.

As for your hips, they should NOT rotate much in the Natural Golf swing, maybe about 15-25 degrees. If you rotate them more, you can create a great deal of power but your swing will likely go off plane and you won't be able to control it.

Question from Richard: I have used the conventional golf swing for over 25 years, and have been messing around with the Moe Norman swing and have more distance and control ( some times ) . I'm using standard clubs and grips. I read a few of your articles on changing grips, would changing grips to a bigger size change the feel of my clubs? weight, etc, and lose distance. What size in the lamkin do you recommend?

Marty: The short answer is, "Yes", changing the grip size will result in a different feel of the club. However, I don't think this is a big problem. After enough practice on the range, you should feel comfortable with the grips and feel of the club.

I use the Lamkin Crossline Jumbo grips, but I have a larger than average size hand. I used to play with Large size golf gloves but have developed a better feel without a glove. I'd recommend trying two different grip sizes on two of your irons (it's great if you have a few spare clubs). Grip size is really a matter of personal preference, but I like the larger size since they are less likely to slip in my hand.

Question from Yuri: I have recently taken up golf about 1 month and a half ago. A good friend taught me the conventional swing (he is a 10 or 8 handicap), which I must say requires an incredible sense of timing. I could manage my irons but I would avoid my drivers. The drivers being longer felt like a nightmare to control. I stumbled upon your website advocating the natural golf technique though I think this is a misnomer as nothing in golf is natural. Of course, I understand the implication of it being easier and it was a lot easier. It took me a few weeks but I got it worked out and I hit with my driver straight and close to 200 yards, probably 195 yards (I am playing with a bunch of rather outdated spaldings, but I love it anyway). I can do this fairly consistently. All this self taught, which should say a lot about the system.

Sometime soon I'll get myself a set of decent clubs, but for now it's just me and 11 spaldings. Since I am using conventional clubs, I don't mind the grips being smaller. I seem to manage decently but I'm considering getting my clubs fitted with Lamkin as you so often encourage. I personally would not like to switch to NG clubs but rather my idea is to get fitted to a set of clubs that are right for me. That may be Ping, Callaway, Titleist, Nike... whatever. In addition to the fitting, I would consider trying out fitted grips for at least one club (#7 iron) and see how that goes. My one concern is that I intend on playing in tournaments, and will these Lamkin grips be in conformity with USGA rules?

Marty: It sounds like you've made great progress. Hitting good shots consistently after less than two months probably puts you in the top 1% of new golfers. If you're interested in getting fitted for clubs, you should first take a little more time to refine your swing. I've been fitted a number of times, mostly with PING clubs, which I like the best. But the fitting for a Natural Golf swing will be different than the fitting for a conventional swing, so you probably will want to make sure you're comfortable with your swing before making a large investment in fitted clubs.

I'd recommend trying some "demo" or used clubs if there's a shop in your area that provides such deals. You may also want to go to a "Demo day" when several vendors (PING, Cleveland, Callaway, etc) have their clubs available. If you try a number of clubs, you'll start developing a good sense of what you like and hit well. The demo day is the best way to try a lot of clubs in a short time and also get some tips from the sales reps. I've usually found the sales reps to be knowledgeable about their equipment and good at recommending the best clubs for your swing speed and ability. Keep in mind that most golfers progress through several different sets of irons and woods as they lower their handicap. The right club for a 20 handicap is often not the right one for a 10 handicap.

As for the grips, I'm not aware of any professionally made and sold grips which are not USGA approved (except for the preformed grips on training clubs such as the Momentus). The entire line of Lamkin grips are USGA approved.

Follow-up from Yuri: I checked out something from Todd Graves on youtube.com describing the leverage bag drill and he said that it is important to keep the trail arm slightly bent at the moment of impact then afterwards it straightens out and the left arm bends in response. Also that the hands should lead and actually just split seconds before impact they should be ahead of the ball. I realized what I had been doing wrong this whole time. I was hitting the ball with my trail arm straightening out (the straightening out in the Moe swing comes after the shot) like in a conventional swing. I believe this is problematic because I am trying to mix things up and create a sort of hybrid but I don't have the skill for this.

Since I don't have a leverage bag to work with my idea of a practice drill is to stand sideways beside a wall. Then set up the rod like left arm stance and then grip with the right hand from underneath in a way much like you demonstrate on your website. The point of this drill is to keep the trail arm slightly bent just before I intend to strike the wall. Of course, I am not going to actually strike the wall but the emphasis is on 3 things: the back of the left hand should come to a halt just touching the wall, a feeling of pushing into the left side and the trail arm slightly bent while attempting to hit the ball like a hammer. If the trail arm remains slightly bent, then the club will not tap the wall but if the conventional swing is used then the club will tap the wall. What do you think?

Marty: The leverage bag is a good practice aid. You could also use a couch cushion or bed pillow for the same effect. One of the most important aspects of the swing is having your hands in front of the club head on impact. That's the whole idea of leverage. Moe Norman often talked about leading with the left leg and lagging with the hands to maintain this leverage angle. Your wall drill sounds workable. Another option is to practice 1/2 sings on the range and focus on keeping your hands in front of the ball on impact - hitting "punch shots"

Question from Jerry: I like your site and desire to help people. My question concerns recent changes in NG terminology and teaching concepts, which more closely coincide with Graves' teachings. Although I like what Todd and Tim Graves are teaching I think it's important to be aware that they are teaching what a much younger Moe did. I'm not so sure that's the best route for those of us who are older. After all, why did Moe change later? Anyway, back to the question. I notice that you still advocate the older teachings of NG but how do you feel about the newer developments and ideas they have come out with?

One other question that I'm having a hard time with is concerning the lie angle of clubs.You state that regular length conventional clubs with a standard lie angle will have the toe up in the NG setup. I think the Graves' also believe this. I have tried hitting standard lie angles with a NG swing on a lie board and find that my marks will be out nearer the toe. When I was fitted for Ping irons a few years ago they set me up with plus one half inch length and 5 deg upright and I hit them dead center. I guess I'm having a hard time with this reasoning or either I am misinterpreting what is being said about this.

Marty: I've read Moe's book "The Feeling of Greatness" but don't remember much about why he changed part of his swing (such as overlapping grip and 10-finger grip). I suspect that he just liked to experiment with different concepts. I do this too - I'm always looking for minor adjustments that will provide more distance, accuracy, and consistency. Usually, I can improve one aspect but take a hit in another.

As far as the newer developments in NG, I'm all for it. As I mention on my site, I'm not a pro and don't pretend to be. I'm just a decent amateur who's found some success with NG and am interested in spreading the word. I admire Graves' work and have bought several of his DVDs and his training club. I can't think of anything that he teaches that I don't agree with - although I can't claim to execute his concepts as well as he does. But I think it's useful for the NG community to see different swings even if they have some flaws, just to support the basic concept of NG. You don't HAVE to be a pro to play competent NG golf.

As for your question about clubs. I've been fitted several times for Ping clubs too. The first few times were with my conventional swing. When I got fitted with my NG stance, my lie angle needed to change. I went from a green (2.25 degree upright) to blue (.75 degree upright). My shafts are 1/4 inch longer than standard as I'm six feet tall. When I've held a conventionally fitted club with a neutral lie angle with an NG stance (left arm straight out - rod position), I've noticed that the toe is usually up several degrees. Frankly, I don't think this is a huge issue since it will just help you hit more of a draw. It's only a problem for golfers who have a very strong grip or overly active hands.

Question from Rick: I just started to experiment with the natural golf swing and noticed that my right arm (trailing arm, I'm right handed) is being bruised by the end of the club. Could it be my finish is incorrect?

Marty: Yes, something is going wrong if this happens. The end of the grip should be aligned with your inside right forearm but it should not hit it on your finish. You may have excessive wrist action in your swing. The Natural Golf swing should not be too "wristy". You do need to allow your wrists to rotate, with the right hand finishing in front of the left at the end of the swing. But you should avoid trying to snap your wrists.

Question from Tyler: Thanks for your website dedicated to Natural Golf. It's great to see and hear testimony from someone who has been using the method for awhile. I recently switched and have found my game improving almost immediately, particularly with mishits. I shot a 2 over par round with lots of fairways and greens where most of my shots weren't really pure. With my old swing, this would have spelled disaster, but with NG I was able to still get it around even though I didn't have my best stuff. I had a question about grips--I know Graves Golf advocates (for a golfer with a medium golf glove) regular-sized grips with three wraps on the lower and one on the upper hand. How does this compare size-wise to using the Lamkin Jumbos you like so much?

Marty: Glad to hear of your success with NG. As for your question, I can't give an exact answer because I've never used under wraps on my grips. I previously used PING grips which come in 5 different sizes. I used the two largest grips (yellow and orange) for NG but then tried the Lamkin Crossline Jumbo and liked the feel even more. I suspect that using a standard grip with a few under wraps would make it just one size larger than standard. That may be fine for someone who uses a medium golf glove. I use a large glove and prefer the larger grips. I think the most important factor is that the grip is large enough for your hands to hold securely and avoid twisting on contact.

Question from Ted: Thanks for a website that is easy to read, understand, and to the point! After looking at your grip video, I realized that my grip was incorrect. I made the adjustments, and shot a 80 yesterday. I am a 64 years old, a 14 handicap, and with your website, I think I can get down to a single digit. My clubs are Ping G5's with lite steel shafts, 1/2 inch longer than standard and 2 deg. upright. I am very happy with them. They seem to work well with the NG method. I noticed that your irons in the videos are graphite. Do you feel that graphite is an advantage? Why? I went to the Golfsmith website and found a kit for Lamkin jumbo grips. They also come in a corded style. Would this style work as well?

Marty: Glad to hear about your success. Shooting 80 with a 14 handicap is super. I used to play with the Ping G5's. I think they are excellent clubs. I traded the irons in a few years ago for the Ping Rapture, which I like even more. I have the older G-2 3W and 7 wood which are graphite shafts. My irons, however, are all steel shafts - but they are stiff - as are all my shafts. I don't think graphite shafts are much of an advantage for the irons, but I like the feel with the woods. They probably add about 10-20 yards over the steel shaft.

As for grips, the style is just a matter of personal preference. One of my friends has the new (blue) Lamkin Jumbo. I really like the feel of these and may switch once my current grips (Lamkin Crossline) get old. I also like the look of Graves' new grips. They are worth considering too.

Question from Rey: I am a 10 handicap conventional golfer, willing to try NG. I have been at it for about one month. It has been up and down. Hit some excellent shots and some bad shots. Very inconsistent on the tee. Took one lesson with an authorized NG in my area. Since the lessons cost so much, I am trying to do it myself. I bought a video from Graves, as you suggested to continue to learn. One thing I noticed is that holding the left arm straight that far away from my body may not be that good for me. My left arm may need some support... Just a thought! I have been so inconsistent that I am very disappointed with me and NG. Any ideas?

Marty: My experience wasn't much different. The first few months I hit a lot of bad shots, especially hooks. The stronger (than conventional) grip makes it easy to flip your hands and hook the ball. If you don't want to spend big $$$ on lessons I would highly recommend a video camera to tape your swings. You only need to tape about 5 minutes on the range to see what you're doing. But you'll probably want to do this often, until your swing is very consistent.

My instructor had repeatedly noted to me that I needed to extend my left (lead for righties) arm into the "rod" position. I had a tendency to let my hands drop down below my waist. However, this is a big mistake in the Natural Golf swing. My experience is that letting the hands drop below this point takes your swing off plane and leads to all sorts of problems; you can snap hook the ball if you come around your body or slice it if you keep your wrists from rotating. Neither of these options is what you want.

I'd also recommend you review all the basics (grip, address position, backswing, impact, follow through). The video cam has helped me detect occasional swing flaws that creep up. Usually, these come about by trying to do too much, especially trying for more distance. I played a USGA tournament last month at a course I've played about 50 times. However, I always played the white tees, which were about 6,500 yards. During the tournament we had to play back tees which are almost never available and stretched the course to over 7,000 yards. I didn't play very well because I was just trying to hit my driver and woods too far. Over the past few weeks, I've adjusted my swing and am having much better success with a 250 yard drive.

My advice is to be patient and spend less time just hitting balls and more time taking videos and analyzing your swing. You don't have to be a pro to see most things that look right and what looks wrong.

Question from James: I realize that by trying to totally rebuild my swing I'd probably get worse before I got better, but this is getting ridiculous. From the outside it seems this is a simpler way to play, but so far I feel like a beginner again. My bad shots on the course pretty much run the gamut, shanks, skulls, tops, fat, thin, push slices or huge pushes with my driver etc.... To say the least I'm pretty frustrated at this point, but at the same time I know that I'm missing something and I'm the problem not the natural golf system.

Anyway, I'm extremely frustrated that a "simpler" method has so far been so maddeningly difficult to achieve any sort of consistency with. To be fair I haven't had any instruction (the nearest certified NG instructor is about 8 hours south of where I live in extreme NE Wisconsin) plus I have been trying all this with conventional equipment. Any words of encouragement? I'm determined to make it work, just a little shocked at the steep learning curve (at least in my place).

Marty: Don't give up on NG yet! It took me several months of range practice and a number of lessons before I was playing decent NG. I've never seen anyone play good NG without larger than standard grips. Conventional grips don't fit the right palm well, it's like trying to hold a pencil in your palm. I recommend getting at least one club, say your 7 iron, fitted with a larger grip. I like the Lamkin Jumbo's. They are tapered; about 3" around the center and 3.5" at the butt end. Please try this and check out my grip instruction or the NG/Graves web sites. The grip is the most important part of NG. If that's not right you'll have to make all sorts of compensations in your swing.

My second recommendation is to get a video camera and tape your swing. No matter how good you are you can't tell exactly what you are doing on your swing. Whenever my swing has gone off I take a look at the video and find something that I'm doing wrong. My most common error is taking too long of a backswing and not keeping my hands closer to my right shoulder. Once you look at your video you can compare to my swing (which is pretty good but certainly not a perfect model) and see what's different. I'm currently working on shortening my backswing to keep it below my right shoulder. I'm making better ball contact but I am occasionally rushing my downswing. If you ever see videos of Moe Norman you can appreciate his incredible consistency, every swing is almost identical, with the same rhythm and tempo. My goal is to come closer to this model.

Question from Chris: I have been a single digit handicap up until 5 months ago I had rotator cuff surgery . I have been cleared to play golf, but totally lost my swing - completely lost it! I have enjoyed your site and tried the technique that appears to be much simpler and consistent. Except I can't even hit the ball using natural golf after 2 months of trying. Do you have any drills that will help me build this swing? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Marty: You have my sympathy. A rotator cuff injury can be incapacitating for golf (and many other sports). The good news is that the Natural Golf swing is easier on all body parts and doesn't require the precise timing of the conventional swing. I certainly think you'll get your game back faster with NG than with the conventional method.
My best suggestion is to focus on chipping and pitching right now. Keep your backswing short, hands no higher than your waist, and just try to make solid contact.

Here's one good NG drill that may help;
1. Practice short pitches one handed.
2. Hold a PW in your right hand only.
3. Address the ball in your NG stance (not too wide for pitching, with weight almost all on your left (lead) leg).
4. Use the NG palm grip in your right hand.
5. Position another club with the butt end on the ground about 1 foot away from the ball.
6. Hold the second club with your left hand holding the club head.
7. Practice a short swing with NO body movement, just a right hand going back and forward, inside the other club.

This drill helps develop the skills in the right hand, which does most of the work in the Natural Golf swing. The left (lead for righties) just hangs on for control. The drill isolates the right hand and takes your left side out of the swing. Once you start hitting solid chips like this then add your left hand to the swing. Hold off on full swings until you can make solid contact with your pitches.

Question from Ted: Are there any "checks" during the swing, that will insure that my swing path and swing plane are correct? I tend to swing too much to the inside and my club shaft is too vertical.

Marty: Yes, there are a few checks you can do. The first is about half-way to the top of your backswing. Your left arm should point nearly straight back from the target line with the club shaft forming nearly a right angle (90 degrees) with your left arm.
The second is at the top of your backswing where your hands should be about shoulder height and even with - or just behind - your shoulder. You don't want your hands to get any closer to your head or you'll be off-plane (too vertical).

Question from David: My understanding from Peter Fox's book and my Natural Golf clinic is that Moe's swing began with the club grounded 12 inches behind the ball. Your way makes much more sense to me. HOWEVER, I was wondering:
1. what the reasons were for the twelve inches
2. what led you to change the "Natural Golf" swing on that point

Marty: Frankly, I'm not sure why Moe positioned his club 12 inches behind the ball. I heard once that he liked this position since it shortened his backswing - - it was 12 inches shorter. I prefer to match my setup position to my impact position. I certainly don't claim to know more about the swing than Moe - it's just that I find this easier for me. Moe would also tee the ball forward of his left foot on the driver. I think he did this so he could get more body weight behind his drive. He looks like a machine on video, but I can't make this work for me. I position the ball with my lead (left) hip with the driver. I'll slice the ball if I move it forward of this. You may want to check out Graves' website for more info on this; http://swinglikemoe.com.

Question from Tim: Marty, this has to be one of the best golf websites even compared to companies that make a living at it. I started with NG and have since went with Scott Hazeldine IMA. I think they are just different explanations of the same thing. The question I have is in relation to a pull or pull hook. If I swing too hard my right hand will close the club face. To fix it I extend my index finger straight down the shaft similar to a putter grip. It works but I do not think it is the right fix. I do not have NG grips currently just oversized regular grips. I might go back to a jumbo grip if it will help.

Marty: I like to play a draw but occasionally hook the ball, especially if I try to hit it a little harder. Here's a few things I'd recommend:
1. Don't extend your index finger down the grip/shaft. That's just not the right fix.
2. Check your grip, it may be too strong. If your left hand has more than two knuckles visible from face on, it's too strong. Your right hand "V" should point up your right forearm to your right shoulder. If it points further to the right it's too strong. You may want to adjust your grip so that your hands are not in such a strong position.
3. Check your backswing. Ideally, you'd like it to be as close to your right shoulder as possible. If it gets too high above your shoulder it's easy to hook, especially if you break your left wrist at the top of the backswing.
4. To correct my hook, I focus on shortening my backswing so that my left arm is straight across my chest and my left hand knuckles point away from the target line. This is more of a swing "around" my torso instead of around my head.
5. Tim Graves makes a good point on his website about keeping the backswing in the "Moe Zone", which requires your hands and grip to be no higher than your shoulder. This isn't easy for me to do but I think it's the right concept.

Question from Dave: I have tried natural golf and hit it good on the range and then when I try to play it in a round of golf I seem to lose it. I think I accelerate more on the course with adrenaline flowing too much and overswing. I am also thinking everyone is looking at my swing and I get paranoid about it. They think you are not finishing your swing because there is no left hip clearing for the shot and the finish is different.I also spoke with alot of good teachers in town and no one likes the method which also makes me wonder about the swing and set up. My regular swing is not bad but I think in natural golf my impact is better. Sometime on the course i tend to come out of the shot like I am swinging too fast and I am past the ball by the time I swing and push about 10 yards right, but on the driving range I do not do it. Do you have any tips how to stay in posture with out coming out of the shot early ? My shoulder comes out early before impact and produces a bad shot as it does not give it chance for my arms to drop down to the ball at impact. Also can you give me some positives why I should try and stay with it versus a conventional swing ? I have good eye to ball contact and played alot of baseball in my earlier years.

Marty: Yes, the Natural Golf swing is different - and if you're uncomfortable with that you may not want to use it. But if you'd use a belly putter or a long putter because you had better results, then I'd urge you to consider NG. Of course, few PGA pros have a positive impression of NG. Few have heard of Moe Norman and most think the only way to play golf is the way Hogan, Nicklaus, Woods, and other greats play. NG is for the other 99% of golfers who don't have great talent or years to spend on refining their game.

Posture: Focus on hitting down and through the ball with a shallow divot in front of it. Your knees, hips, and shoulders should be parallel to the target line at impact.

If you can get your handicap below 6, then stay with the conventional swing. Otherwise, make a commitment for one year to play only NG - on the range and the course. If you do this, the odds are that you will make a significant improvement.

Question from Steve: Hi, just found your site and like it very much. I also am mid teens hcp and want to be single digit. Took NG school and lessons but never stuck with it. I would have few bad rounds and figure if I'm going to do something different it better work. Anyway I am having a tough time deciding to commit to ng or stick with Jim McClellans idea of just copying a good conventional swing. Ever see McGolf.com ? There is a guy in UK who went from 103 to scratch one year doing this. Check out mcgolf.com - - he is a pro that says 99% pga instruction is nonsense. He says good backswing, head still, good follow through. Just copy his "perfect swing" and practice. It's really "modeling" he's suggesting. He also takes a swipe at NG on his blog.

I'm ready to commit and practice but unsure which way to go. Have any golfers in USGA events you mentioned commented on your swing one way or the other? Do you have any mental problems being a little different looking,actually your swing looks great!

Marty: I've been playing NG for about 5 years, have a 4 handicap and still have an occasional bad round. That's just golf. Even though NG is a more reliable technique it doesn't change the nature of the game. If your swing is off you can still push or pull the ball OB, hit fat wedges, get stuck in the sand and 3 putt greens. A lot depends on the courses and conditions. There are some courses out here where I struggle to break 80 (although Fred Funk also shot an 81 on one of them in the final round of the Champions tour).

You do need to commit to NG and try to perfect your swing. Switching back from conventional to NG is almost impossible. I've only seen one person who could hit good shots with both swings (a PGA teaching pro) but even he wasn't much better than a 5 handicap.

I've had other golfers comment on my swing (but not in tournaments because that's just bad etiquette). When I explain what I'm doing nearly everyone is curious. When I hit most of the fairways and greens they're quite interested. I've only met a few very good golfers (near scratch) that look down on NG. They typically are "purists" who also play with blades and practice like mad. I think there's a better way.

I had not seen the Jim McClellan web site prior to your email, but I have a few thoughts on it:
1. If his bio is true, than he is truly a gifted golfer. Hitting 300 yard drives as a 110 lb, 15 year old is truly exceptional.
2. When he states that 90% of golf instruction is bad, he's greatly overstating the case. The reason there is so much advice, and some of it contradictory, is that there are so many things people can do wrong in swinging a golf club. For every error there's a "fix". I will agree however, that having a dozen different swing thoughts won't help anyone.
3. He's right about the top four factors in playing good golf...with #1 being your natural ability.
4. His criticism of NG is not fair or appropriate. NG is just an easier way to swing the golf club and matches his idea of keeping things simple.
5. His swing is very good and his tempo is outstanding. With a swing that smooth and consistent, he would be good regardless of his grip or address position. For the other 99% of golfers I'd recommend NG.

Follow-up from Steve: You're right about sticking with it all or nothing. I had my irons regripped with the lamkin jumbos you recommend. I LOVE these grips. They feel much better than ng grips and are perfect for palm grip. As you indicated, using my taylor made 200 irons produced a soft draw with the Natural Golf swing. I focused on a straight left arm and smooth tempo and hit ball great. Hit six drivers three in fw, three just off in first cut. Hit irons great too (had two tops where i slashed at the ball, think smooth) Anyway your videos helped me get a good picture prior to swing. I am definitely sticking with ng. Last question: How did you practice to get the HCP down to 4 ? (ie; just play a lot, chipping, putting, any suggestions?)

Marty: Glad to hear you're having success with NG. There may be periods when your swing goes astray, but I think you'll find this method is more reliable than any other.

As for my story, I spent most of my practice time on the range, hitting one bucket, two or three times a week. I've tried to make my swing as simple and repeatable as possible. My goal is to hit the ball relatively straight and solid and not worry about the distance. I hit my 7 iron about 150 with a 10 yard difference with each successive iron. I don't try to stretch any club, just take what a smooth swing will produce. I also practice pitches with LW-PW at the range. I start with the LW and hit one ball each for the following; 20,30,40,50,60,70 yards. I hit my SW, UW and PW for at least two different distances. Then I hit about 3 balls with each iron up to my 4. I then hit about 20 balls with a 7w, 3w and Driver. I place a metal yardstick along the target line to ensure that I'm reasonably well aligned and that my feet are placed appropriately.

The weakest part of my game is putting. I don't 3 putt much but don't make enough from 5-15' to break par very often, unless it's an easy course. I've tried every putting method known to man (including side-saddle) but have never found any putter or method that provides great results.

Question from Jerome: I have been playing with natural golf for about three years. It has improved my game, but my biggest problem is I hit a lot of fat shots (behind the ball) I was hoping you could give me some insight on this problem? I love your website It is by far the most informative and easiest to understand about this method.

Marty: The easiest solution to this problem is to move the ball back an inch or two in your stance (closer to your trailing foot.the right one for righties). Ideally, you want the club head to contact the ball just before the club hits the ground.the saying is.hit the little ball before the big ball (earth). If moving the ball back doesn't solve the problem check your setup, make sure you have your sternum behind your belt buckle, and focus on keeping your head steady and behind the ball prior to contact.

Question from James: First I want to say thanks for taking the time to keep up your website, and I wish the all the best to you and yours. I have one question though... On the NG forums I read that NG clubs are +1" and on average 2* upright, but you state that the NG clubs are +1/2" and have a flatter lie than CG clubs( which btw makes more sense to me). Just wondering what gives? My experience has been similar to yours when using standard clubs using the NG method, i.e. I tend to draw or hook all my shots.

Marty: Some of the disagreement may be due to personal preferences and the differences in address position. If you take a standard club (a PING black dot for example) and address a ball with the NG stance you'll generally find that the club is just a little too short and the toe is off the ground. Thus, the NG clubs I've hit are longer, between 1/2" and 1", and have a flatter lie so the toe of the club lies evenly with the heel. However, since far more golfers fade and slice than draw and hook, it's common to see clubs with a higher lie angle to counter a slice. Frankly, I think the length of the club is the most important spec here. If it's too long it can be much harder to hit consistently. I have the Graves "training club", which I like for the grip, but find much more difficult to hit than my PING 6 iron, which is about 1" shorter.

Question from Mark: I stumbled onto your videos on the web and thought you did some really nice teaching. Then I found your website and was very impressed. You would be a great teacher of this method. I have a Certified NG instructor that I have seen twice now, next lesson is this weekend. I have been practicing NG for the last couple of years and I am committed. This year I lost my driver swing. My instructor is having trouble with me getting it back. He can't seem to help me. Here's what's happening. I tee it up, follow your preshot routine and set up, then when I hit the ball it tends to go high to the right maybe a hundred yards. (I am a right handed golfer.) When I am on, I can hit it maybe 255 yds like a rope down the middle. I thought maybe my head was going forward on the shot before I hit the ball which might cause a slice but that does not seem to be the case. Then I thought maybe I was holding the club to tight on my trail (right hand) because sometimes that causes hooks to the right but that does not seem to be the case. I guess I am struggling and looking for answers from anyone who might be able to offer up some advice. You seem like you really have this method down so I thought I would try you. I have graves troubles and solutions, even been to one of their schools. I have the training club and the leverage bag but I am still struggling. Maybe its my grip. I've attached some pictures of my left and right hand grip but it maybe difficult to see. Maybe you can offer up some advice. I take the yard stick to the range and practice lots of drills. My short game is really good, its just the driver I can not get down. I also have a nine wood I am deadly with from 150 yds but the driver is keeping me from breaking 80. If I could get the driver down I would be good. I really hope you can help.

Marty: Your 255 yard drives that are straight down the middle are excellent. I don't hit the ball much further, but I am able to do this fairly consistently. I've looked at your photos and have a couple of tips that may help you resume your excellent drives. Based on your email, with a high short ball to the right, it indicates you are blocking the ball and may have a slightly open clubface on contact. There are two areas I think you should focus on. One is the grip. Try to move the club grip further into the palm of your hand. See my top photo on the Palm Grip page of my website.

The second tip concerns swing path. To avoid hitting a block, make sure that you have your "rod position" (with the club shaft and your left arm aligned) at address. Don't allow your hands to drop closer to your body because that will take the club shaft out of plane. On the downswing, make a conscious effort to keep your head still and your sternum behind your belt buckle. Your comment about moving your head forward is a very common error and sometimes is hard to correct without conscious effort.

Question from Mark: One other question. I realize you use the crossline jumbo however my hands are small. When using the Lamkin grip wizard my hands measured a small. Do you think I would be able to handle the jumbo? Are they much like the original natural golf non tapered grips. I have some of those grips on clubs from years past. I am just a bit concerned with using a a jumbo because the guy at the golf shop where they have them locally asked if my hands were really large? There not. I am worried about not being able to hinge the club at the top of the back swing do to this. Any opinion?

Marty: I prefer the tapered grip of the Lamkin Crossline Jumbo over the non-tapered NG grips. If you like the feel of the non-tapered NG grip, I'd suggest staying with that. If you want to try a similar sized but tapered grip, I'd suggest trying one of the oversized Ping grips. Ping makes 5 different sizes. White is standard sized; orange is one size larger; yellow is two sizes larger than standard. (The other two are smaller than standard). I've used both the yellow and the orange grips. I switched to Lamkin because I like the feel better, but it is really a personal choice.

Question from John: I'm considering a switch to natural golf, and I'm curious of your background. And where your information about the natural golf method derives from?

Marty: My golf background is rather modest. I've played golf for about 30 years but it was mostly as a diversion from my primary sport, which was tennis. I played tennis in high school, college and many amateur tournaments. I still play tennis twice a week and am a 4.5 rated player.

Back to golf.I've taken numerous golf lessons over the years, and worked my handicap down under 10. About 5 years ago after moving to Hawaii, I became interested in Natural Golf. It's often very windy here, the pros say it's the toughest wind they face all year. So it's really important to hit the ball cleanly and control the flight.

NG appealed to me as a simpler technique, similar to baseball, which I had played quite well in my youth. I bought a number of NG videos and books and took about a dozen lessons from Tim Dietrich, the only certified NG pro in Hawaii. I've attended clinics put on by Tim and a former associate of Moe Norman, Tim Hurja. I've also taken lessons from Kelly Murray, who was probably the closest person to Moe Norman who is still alive today. Kelly was a multiple year World Long Driving Champion in the 80's.

I'm currently a 4 handicap golfer and play a couple USGA stroke play tournaments a year. I'm not a golf pro and don't claim to be. But I've had lots of experience playing different sports and think my knowledge of both conventional and NG can help just about anyone who has a 10 handicap or more and is interested in Natural Golf.

Question from Joe: I have switched to the natural golf swing and I have had very good success with it especially with my irons. However, when I am on the driving range I eventually start skying the ball with my driver. I usually start hitting it very well but for some unknown reason I start to sky it and it only goes about 100 yards. Any idea what might be causing this?

Marty: Check your tee height and ball position. You want the ball teed so that about 1/2 of hit is above the face of the driver when the club is soled behind it. I see a number of people at the range teeing the ball so that it is entirely above the driver at address. This makes it harder to hit squarely although you might be able to hit it a little farther if you hit it perfectly. The ball should be positioned just inside your left hip. If you get it too far outside your lead foot, or too far away from you, it may be difficult to make consistent contact.

Question from Mark: I was playing to a 9 handicap the conventional way but was way too inconsistent. I was always intrigued with Moe's easy style and accuracy. I made the switch and sold my irons and got natural golf equipment. All in all, I am hitting the ball well especially my driver. It seems like the further I reach out on set up with my irons the better I hit the ball. Does that make sense to you ? If my arms are fully extended the ball goes straight.

Marty: Congrats on your success with Natural Golf. The short answer to your question is, "Yes", reaching out and fully extending your left arm will help with your accuracy. If you check the videos of Moe, or anyone else with the Natural Golf swing, you'll see they set up to the ball with a fully extended left arm, which Moe called the "rod" position. By fully extending your left arm at address and impact you're more likely to keep you swing on "one plane". This makes it easier to hit the ball straight or with a slight draw or fade.

Question from Tom: I have been doing the Natural golf for about two years and learned a lot from Kelly Murray through lessons. Unfortunately, it seems my iron play disappears at the most crucial times and takes weeks for it to reappear as if by magic. My driver is always the same but the irons have me baffled on how to correct what is going on. Things such as the "shanks" and "fat", lack of distance and dead pull rights are just some of the afflictions. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Marty: While I've been impressed with Kelly's video and swing I don't think it's very easy to copy. Kelly is a great athlete with tremendous golf skills and flexibility. He's set a number of long drive records worldwide and also putting records in Canada. But his swing tempo is too fast for me and his transition from backswing to forward swing is very quick. When I've tried to copy his swing I lose consistency. For my best results I need to do the following;

1. Take a slower backswing, like some of the women on the LPGA (watch an old Nancy Lopez backswing for example).

2. Extend my hands no more than 6" above my right shoulder (I'm right-handed). If I lengthen my backswing and get my hands too high I'll lose consistency. Some shots will go farther but others will go off-line.

3. Swing easy on the downswing and keep my head steady and behind the ball until impact.

When I'm on the range and hit a few poor shots I'll try to take a few very slow and easy swings to just hit the ball straight and solid, without any concern for the distance. This usually helps gets my swing back.

Question from Troy: I want to switch to Natural golf. I have the original 2 VHS tapes that I got from my uncle. I play to about a 15 handicap now with conventional golf. I really have no options for lessons here in Sioux City, IA. Are these tapes going to be enough for me to learn the system? Obviously I will also rely on your website for help. I have the opportunity to purchase several DVD's from the Grave's Golf Academy at a very reasonable price. Do you think these are necessary or can I switch to natural golf with the original videos and your websites help?

Marty: I don't know how good the original VHS tapes are but I can say that I'm very pleased with the two DVD's I purchased from Grave's. I'd recommend buying the Grave's DVD's because they are very well produced and they make it easier to understand the specific swing instructions. I'd also note that Grave's and the Natural Golf folks occasionally bicker like Clinton and Obama even though they agree 90% of the time. I think Graves can be too dogmatic about some concepts, such as the ideal distance from your toe line to the ball, which I think is really more a matter of personal preference.

You can learn a lot from my web site and the DVD's but it's still tough to master the NG technique without an instructor. If you can't find a NG certified instructor in your area then you should videotape your swing. I try to do this every 3-6 months and find it helpful. Occasionally, I find that I'm doing something that I was not aware of. When you compare your videotaped swing with the DVD's (or my web site) you may find it easier to see what you need to improve.

One last point, you may want to experiment with different grips before you commit to one. I tried the NG grips and used them for about a year. I've since switched to the Lamkin Crossline Jumbo grips and like them much more. You must have a larger than conventional grip to use the Natural Golf swing but which grip you choose is more a matter of personal preference than anything else.

Question from YouTube: I just watched your video about the Natural Golf swing. You hit an iron and showed that it followed the line of your left arm. This puts your hands in front of the ball. what do you do with the driver? I see a lot of the pros tilting their spines toward the right leg and the club head in front of the hands. If I place my driver in the position like your iron, I will sky the ball and take a divot.

Marty: The driver, as well as all the other clubs, is positioned in line with the left arm. That's what Moe Norman called the "Rod" position. For the Driver, the ball should be positioned just inside the left hip and ahead of the hands at address. That promotes a sweeping, slightly upward path of the club head. The driver is the only club you want to hit this way since it leads to a higher ball flight and generally more distance...if you hit it correctly.

You're also correct in noting that all pros tilt their spine away from the target line and toward their back leg (right leg for righties). You want the center of your swing, the bottom of your sternum, to stay behind the center of your body, your navel or belt buckle. One of the most important things to remember is that you need to keep your head relatively still and definitely behind the ball at impact. If you let your head more forward or you drop your left shoulder prior to impact you will likely drive the clubhead into the turf. Try some very easy swings with your driver while keeping your head still and your spine angled toward your right leg. If you practice this at about "half-speed" you'll likely to feel how this is supposed to work. Good luck.

Question from Howard: Hi Marty. I have switched to natural golf, finding your website one of the best resources on the web. My question is: do I really need to get the natural grips? will changing my grips to the natural golf grips without changing my clubs suffice, or do I really need to get the clubs as well?

Marty: Glad you enjoyed my web site. My answer to your question is, "Yes", you really want to change your grips. The reason is because it's almost impossible to use a Natural Golf hand position on a conventional/standard size grip. The standard grips are designed to be held in the fingers and are too small to be held effectively in the palm of your right hand. But you have a few options. The Natural Golf grips are certainly the best known. They are about 3.0" (inches) around. Another option which I like even more are the Lamkin Crossline Jumbo grips. These are 3.5" at the butt end and taper to 3.0" at the middle and bottom. I like the feel of these grips, the extra width at the end really helps to eliminate unwanted wrist action; the only wrist action you want is similar to that you would use with a hammer; one direction back and through.

The good news is that you don't need to buy new clubs. Natural Golf clubs are specially designed for the NG method and are about 1/2" longer than standard. They also have a flatter lie angle, which means the toe of the club will lie flat with the ground when held correctly. A conventional club will likely lie a few degrees "toe up"when held in the NG setup. That's not perfect but it won't have a huge impact. It will simply facilitate a right to left shot (draw) and since 90% of golfers hit a face or slice a club that counters that tendency will probably help more than hurt. I'd advise regripping just a few clubs at first and make sure you like the grips. If you don't like the Lamkin (which most pro shops will have) then try the NG grips (which only NG sells). You could also try one of the conventional grips as long as you get the largest size they make. You might find one that feels really good to you. Most grips only cost about $8-10$ per club so it's not a big investment and the grips can be changed in a day.

More questions from Howard: The oversize grip you recommended is tough on my hands. Winn and Golf Pride make softer grips. Which specifications do you suggest?

Marty: Whatever feels best to you. The most important thing is that the grip is large enough to be held securely through the palm of the right hand.

Howard: Another question is what is more important to the swing, the oversize grip or lengthening of the club, which means I would need to get either new clubs or lengthen my existing ones by .75 inch since I was fitted for a -.25 shaft length

Marty: The large grip is much more important than the length of the club. If your clubs are a little short you'll just have to bend a little more at the waist. As I mentioned, the toe of the club may lie too upright but that would only encourage a slight draw, which isn't a problem for most golfers.

Howard: Finally, I am hitting my woods and hybrids very square; my irons very inconsistently. I hit my 8 and 9 ok, and struggle with 7 and lower. I have a problem taking divot in front of the ball. Other than the driver, is it one swing for all clubs? I would appreciate your thoughts

Marty: Not really, you want to hit up on your driver, that's why you tee the ball high, so you can get "carry" distance. With fairway woods you want to sweep the ball off the turf and take a minimum of divot. With your irons you want to take a divot in proportion to the club, the largest divot for the SW and the least for a 4 iron. These are slight adjustments, not major swing changes. If you have trouble taking a divot in front of the ball try to find a grass driving range for practice, it's hard to develop this skill hitting off mats.

Final question from Howard: Also, what role does the lead (my left) arm play on the downswing through impact?

Marty: With the NG method, the left arm is used primarily for helping guide and control the club. The right arm is the primary source of power.

Question from Alain: Is it possible to use the natural golf swing in combination with the one plane swing? And does the natural swing have to be done with the palm grip?

Marty: The short answer is, yes, you can combine the Natural Golf swing principles with some of the principles of the "one plane swing". Just keep in mind that once you start mixing these concepts you're on your own. If you start having trouble with your swing it might be difficult for you , or a NG/PGA pro to fix it. The major difference between the one plane swing and NG is that NG uses a larger grip which is held in the palm of the hands. For someone who thinks NG is too radical a change, I'd recommend first trying to follow the one plane swing theory. If it helps but you still feel you should be more consistent then I'd say give NG a chance.

Question from Donnie: Did you lose distance? i tried it about 2 years ago and did real well but had a flaw that i couldn't shake and lost all of my distance.

Marty: To answer your question, I have not lost any distance with Natural golf but am not a long hitter. I average 150 w/ 7 iron and go up/down about 10 yards per club...160 w/ 6 iron, 140 w/ 8 iron, etc.. I only go up to a 4 iron (180) and then use a 7 wood (190), 3 wood (230), driver (260). With less body, especially hip sway, you won't get as much weight into your shot but I think that does far more harm than good.

If you want a little more distance I'd recommend trying to extend your hands away from your head as much as possible (as long as it's not too difficult). The extra width created will help increase club head speed and give you a few more yards. Of course, I'm always more concerned with hitting it straighter. It's easy to go up a club if you need more distance but if your shot doesn't go straight there's no club that will help.

Question from Stephen: Hi. I'm just starting up golf again after not playing for ten years, so this is a perfect time to try and make the switch to Natural. I don't think anyone teaches it around here, so I'm going to be fending for myself. I ordered the older Natural Golf video series from eBay. Are there any other training aids that you think would be useful? Thanks for the help.

Marty: It's really helpful to have someone who's a certified NG instructor. But if you don't have anyone in your area I'd recommend two training aids that I've found quite useful:

1) 36" yardstick from any hardware store. Use it to help position your feet (consistent stance, parallel to your target line), and position your ball. I prefer to place my feet the same distance apart for all shots although the traditional NG instruction recommends a narrower stance for shorter clubs. I also prefer to position the ball just in front of my body center (pants zipper) for all clubs except the Driver, which I play just inside my left heel. It may be more comfortable for you to adjust your "feet-width" for each club. The yardstick will help you measure this so you can experiment and determine what works best for you and then how to practice that consistently. I always use a yardstick when I go to the range. It helps me make sure that my feet and ball position are consistent.

2)The Swing Extender. This only costs about $25 but it's a good aide. It helps you avoid over swinging and at the same time helps create swing "width" so you can still hit a powerful shot. Here's a link for a site that sells it. http://www.golftrainingaids.com/swingextender.html

3)Graves Golf Academy - "Feeling of Greatness" Training Club. It is a 6 iron with a pre-formed grip that will put your hands in the recommended position. You can hit balls with this club - unlike the Momentus. It is pricey, however, around $130 and available on his website.

Question from Bob: What initiates the natural golf swing? Do you drag the club straight back or slightly inside?

Marty: Ideally, the hips, torso and arms all start at the same time. Since the hips have the shortest distance to travel they will move the slowest and the arms the fastest. It's better if they all move together rather than in sequence, which would look rather robotic. I prefer to bring the club straight back but that is mostly a personal preference. The key is to not allow the club to get too far inside or outside at the top of the swing since that will make it difficult to get the club on plane for the downswing.

Question from Bob W.: I am recently side lined from playing due to a back injury from years of golfing. I am hopeful that I will get this corrected and return to the game. My thinking is that I need to make a change so I do not put so much stress on my back. From what I read natural golf is one of the main options. What is the best way to go about this? If there is no NG instructor nearby any thoughts on the best instruction package? Do I need to get new clubs or can I have my current clubs adjusted? I was thinking of starting by having the proper grip put on a 6 iron but am not sure it would work well with the toe up. Have you had any experience with the Simple Swing being marketed on the internet?

Marty: The Natural Golf swing is certainly less stressful on the lower back than the conventional swing. I've met one instructor who switched from conventional to Natural to reduce his back pain and has maintained a scratch handicap. So it's a good choice for anyone. The NG website (www.naturalgolf.com) offers a great booklet and video instruction on DVD's. They provide some of the best instruction and tips I've seen and are very well produced. But as good as they are, they can't provide everything a certified NG instructor can. It really helps to have someone look (and video) your swing from different angles analyze what things you do well and what you should modify. It's very difficult to do this on your own....which is why nearly all the PGA Tour pros work with an instructor... it's not that they don't know what to do, but rather they can't watch themselves while they hit the ball.

You don't necessarily need new clubs although you will need new grips. The NG grip is larger, designed to fit in the palm of your hands, not the fingers. If you were going to buy a new set of clubs you would want to get fitted with a NG set up...since you extend your arms at address and stand farther away from the ball you'd like a club with a flatter lie....the toe of the club is flat on the ground at impact. However, since most amateurs tend to slice/fade the ball having the toe up helps to correct for this.

The Simple Swing follows many of the same ideas as NG but does not use the larger grip. I think the grip size and placement of the hands on it are two of the most important factors in the NG swing and the reasons why it's more reliable than the conventional swing. I must admit though that it's not foolproof. I shot a 74 +2 yesterday and still hit two, pulled drives in the water (lateral hazards). No method is perfect, but NG is the most reliable technique I've found.

Question from Scott: Marty, what does "Cocking left wrist may lead to hooking" mean exactly? Do I not bend my left wrist of the top of my backswing?

Marty: That statement can be confusing... it may be better to say Don't "overcock" left wrist. Check your left wrist at the top of the backswing. The wrist and bottom of the left hand should be in a straight line. Another clue, if you wear a golf glove with a Foot Joy logo, the logo should be parallel to the ground. If you overcock the wrist to the point where your left hand is bent to the left, it is very hard to control the wrist release on impact. If the release is a split-second too early, you'll hook the ball. If it's too late, you'll slice it. This same advice applies to the conventional golf swing.

Question from Bob: I have been a natural golfer for about 3 years now. I have noticed much improvement with my tee shots but I struggle with my chipping. Do you have an open stance, weight on the front foot, etc. I tend to not hit the ball square. Any suggestions?

Marty: 1) Weight on left/front foot 2) Open stance 3) Ball slightly behind center of stance to promote hitting the ball before the turf 4) Short back swing; club head doesn't rise further than mid-calf.

Question from Phil: I switched to Natural Golf a couple of years ago... Spent a lot of time on it... Was erratic golfer.... I hit the ball straight, but with no distance... I am in great shape, 45 years old... and can't hit a drive over 200yds...... My friends say I grandpa people to death... I have tried everything... any thoughts.

Marty: Yes, to achieve more distance you need more club head speed. There are basically two ways to get this. One way would be to try to swing very fast, like Tiger or many of the PGA tour pros. However, if you don't have their tremendous flexibility and strength you'll probably just injure your back...and hit balls all over the place. A better approach is to lengthen your back swing by making a fuller shoulder turn. Ideally, you'd like to rotate your shoulders near 90 degrees from address (your back would then face the target line) with your hips rotating about 45 degrees. The difference between the shoulder turn and hip turn creates club head speed. So if you turn your hips the same amount as your shoulder you won't gain any yardage.

With the longer back swing you'll have more time and distance for your hands (and hence) your club to pick up speed before it hits the ball. The longer your back swing the more speed you can generate. If you've ever seen a photo of John Daly at the top of his back swing, his club head is just above his left pants pocket. That's how he gets so much speed and distance. Of course, I wouldn't recommend that to anyone I try to make a shoulder turn that puts my left shoulder directly under my nose. But I don't want the shaft of the club to get parallel with the ground at the top...I have better success keeping the shaft about 45 degrees from parallel. With a full turn I hit my Driver about 260. I could hit further but would lose accuracy.

Question from Chris: I use the natural golf swing but do not use the st110 irons. Is there a big difference in using these irons over like ( callaways,ping,taylormade, Cobra, ect). At the moment I use the Callaway Big Bertha irons. I was going to put the natural golf grips on them but was told not to it would make me hook the ball a lot.

Marty: There's not a big difference in the NG clubs, but their design is better suited to the Natural Golf swing than conventional clubs that are bought "off the rack". The NG stance is wider, with the club held further out in front of your body....the club shaft should be aligned with your left arm (for righties). When viewed from behind, the club shaft and your left arm should form a straight line. The NG clubs are designed so they lie correctly, with the sole of the club flat on the ground, the toe even with the heel. Conventional clubs would likely lie "toe up", since they are not designed to be held in the NG address position.

You can change your conventional club grips to the NG type. They are thicker and are designed to be held in the middle of the hands. If you've been playing conventional golf for a while it is common to hook the ball when your learning the Natural Golf swing. It took me about a month to get it under control. You have to be willing to get worse for at least a few weeks before the new swing starts to feel comfortable. And it's near impossible to try to go back and forth between NG and conventional. If you're more than a single digit handicap and want to make a significant improvement, I think this is one of the best options.

Question from Scott: I found your web site very interesting. However, I have totally lost my natural golf swing recently and at a loss on how to get it back. I think most of the issues lie within my grip, but noticed that your grip appeared to be weaker in the right hand and stronger in the left, Can you reiterate or expound on you grip and also the grip pressure?

Marty: You're right, I have a weaker right hand grip than the NG book/video promotes. For me, that grip was just too strong and caused me to hook the ball. My right thumb is at the 11 o'clock position on the grip and my left thumb at 1 o'clock. That feels more balanced to me. My grip pressure is about a 6 on a 1-10 scale, just enough to secure the club through the swing.

My other advice when a club goes awry is to practice with a club that's at least two clubs shorter. So put your driver in the bag and go to the range and hit a 5 or 7 wood if you have one. Try hitting very smoothly, even if the ball only goes 175 yards. All you want to do is to find your swing again. Don't think at all about distance or club head speed. Just try hitting the smoothest shot you can, imagine your on TV and you're trying to impress everyone on how smoothly you swing. Once you regain your confidence with the shorter club you can go back to the driver.